President Trump criticized the U.K. over its stance on the war on Iran, as he praised and welcomed Germany’s chancellor to the White House.
SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The U.S. and Israeli war on Iran is straining relations with some U.S. allies. Tonight, France’s president said the U.S. and Israel are acting outside international law. Germany’s chancellor happened to be at the White House earlier in the day. President Trump gave Friedrich Merz a warm welcome, but he had some harsh words for other European countries.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Spain has been very, very uncooperative, and so has U.K.
DETROW: We’re going to talk about this now with two NPR international correspondents, Rob Schmitz in Berlin and Lauren Frayer in London. Hey to both of you.
LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: Hi there.
ROB SCHMITZ, BYLINE: Hello.
DETROW: Rob, I’m going to start with you. Chancellor Merz was on a prescheduled official visit to the White House today, meeting President Trump. What did they talk about?
SCHMITZ: Yeah. President Trump said a lot of nice things about Merz. He called Merz successful. He said he was popular. He said the U.S. has been able to do deals with Germany. Merz spoke to reporters afterwards in English, and he said that Germany and the U.S. are on the same page in doing away with what he called a, quote, “terrible regime” in Iran. And he also said he and Trump need to talk about what happens when the regime in Tehran is out of power. Merz mentioned that the conflict has caused a bit of economic chaos for Europe. Here’s what he said.
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CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ: This is true for the oil prices, and this is true for the gas prices as well. So that’s the reason why we all hope that this war will come to an end as soon as possible. And we are hoping that the Israelian and the American army are doing the right things to bring this to an end.
DETROW: Rob, how does what Merz said today square with what he has said in the past when it comes to the transatlantic relationship?
SCHMITZ: Yeah. The tone has changed a little. You know, two weeks ago at the Munich Security Conference, I watched Chancellor Merz deliver a speech where he declared the international rules-based order dead. And he said this new order of what he called big power politics engineered by the Trump administration, Russia and China was the new reality. And he called on Europe to unite so that democracy could survive. He characterized these big powers as sort of international bullies. But now that the U.S. and Israel have attacked Iran, Merz is signaling support for the U.S. in this endeavor. So it’s a bit of a reversal for Merz.
DETROW: Lauren, is it fair to say there was a bit of a reversal in the United Kingdom as well?
FRAYER: Yeah, absolutely. So the U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer initially said he would not allow the U.S. to use British military bases to attack Iran. Spain said that, too, prompting that retort from Trump you heard there. But then after the U.S. and Israel launched their war and Iran retaliated against British allies in the Gulf, Starmer reversed himself. And so now he is allowing the U.S. to use British bases but only in what he calls a defensive way.
DETROW: But what does that mean? Is the U.K. joining the war effort?
FRAYER: It’s kind of a matter of perspective. Like, the U.K. is sending a warship to protect its air base in Cyprus, which was hit by an Iranian drone. Starmer’s critics accuse him of dragging the country into what they call an illegal war. One MP called Starmer Trump’s poodle. That is what critics, you’ll recall, said about Tony Blair way back in 2003, when he joined the U.S.-led Iraq war. They called him George W. Bush’s poodle.
But others compare this moment to a famous scene from a movie two decades ago. The film’s called “Love Actually.” It’s when a fictional prime minister, played by Hugh Grant, stands up to a bullying American president. And Starmer made this impassioned speech in Parliament saying Britain doesn’t believe in, quote, “regime change from the skies.” And he also said this.
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PRIME MINISTER KEIR STARMER: We all remember the mistakes of Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: Yeah.
STARMER: And we have learned those lessons.
FRAYER: You know, Starmer does not want to be Tony Blair, whose legacy was really damaged by that Iraq War decision. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed in that Iraq War, including about 180 British military personnel. But all of this had left Trump very unhappy with Starmer right now.
DETROW: Just like President Billy Bob Thornton was very unhappy with Prime Minister Hugh Grant, but let’s talk more about reality. Why is Trump not happy with Starmer?
FRAYER: He went on a tirade in the Oval Office today against the United Kingdom, and here’s part of what Trump said.
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TRUMP: This is not the age of Churchill. I will say the U.K. has been very, very uncooperative.
FRAYER: So Trump there saying Starmer is no Churchill – that’s Winston Churchill, the famous World War II British prime minister. Incidentally, I recently interviewed Churchill’s grandson a few days ago. He is a veteran U.K. politician himself. He accuses Trump of destabilizing the U.S.-U.K. special relationship, that longtime allowance – alliance. And he told me his granddad would not have liked Trump. It’s worth noting that Starmer has really courted Trump. I mean, he’s not one to criticize Trump normally. But Starmer is also looking domestically, and polls show that many, many more Britains oppose U.S. military action against Iran than support it.
DETROW: Lastly, Rob, I’m going to go back to you. We heard what German leadership is saying about this. How do Germans themselves view this war?
SCHMITZ: Yeah. A poll by a national broadcaster over the weekend showed 59% of Germans do not support these attacks by the U.S. and Israel on Iran. Lauren mentioned how unpopular the Iraq War was in the U.K. I mean, it was also really unpopular among Germans. And in many ways, Germany has had to deal with the destabilizing consequences of that war, which over the next decade led to instability throughout the Middle East and then morphed into the Arab spring. More than a million migrants from the Mid East eventually ended up seeking refuge in Germany. And this, in turn, helped fuel the rise of the far-right here.
Merz himself warned this past weekend that a war in Iran could turn into what he called an Afghanistan- or Iraq-style quagmire that would have a profound impact on Europe. And he’s talking about Europe bracing for yet another wave of migrants, except this time from Iran. And there is no longer as much tolerance for that scenario among Germany’s political parties.
DETROW: That is NPR’s Berlin correspondent Rob Schmitz and London correspondent Lauren Frayer. Thanks so much to both of you.
FRAYER: You’re welcome.
SCHMITZ: Thank you.
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